And there I was, thinking i could avoid politics
I've never been a fan of whale voting deals and hive politics. As a decentralized platform, votes should only be given for causes we believe are beneficial for the chain as a whole.
A while ago I decided to take another attempt at witnessing and working on projects for Hive. The wiki hasn't gotten the traction I hoped yet (although it's about as much as I expected), but as a long term project I stayed dedicated.
That is, until now.
It started with a nice surprise.
I mean, who doesn't like some love being sent their way?
Unfortunately, the hive community isn't as mature as I wish it was. This became clear pretty quickly when I tried to find out what motivated this nice gesture.
Well, here we go again. Politics at its finest.
My (in my view, valid) concerns with the proposal lead to losing funding for my work. This is all too familiar.
Once and for all, for everyone:
You can't buy my vote.
If you think my contributions aren't worth a top witness spot, don't vote for me. I'm totally fine with that.
If you don't vote for me because I don't vote for you, there's not much more to say except "fuck you". If that's what you want hive to be, it'll be without me.
The fork certainly showed the flaws of staked governance. How to balance the stake of the individual to the desires of the masses. Not sure a solution can be found. That may be the reason for Dan walking away from his little "experiment".
IF the power pyramid was in total coherence we'd be in trouble.
Corruption would settle in that we might never escape.
Short of a fork.
On the topic at hand, I thought aggie got shafted when he got here.
He was the only one developing things that came to fruition.
Smtees!™
Smdh.
8+ years to get smart contracts seems a little slow, too.
We are still waiting for those to roll out functionality.
Might be 9 years before we get them.
But,
If you don't like how hive is managed, buy more hive.™
In the end it's like in meatspace, everyone only cares about their own bottom line.
If I don't agree with you receiving half a million of all of our money, it must be personal. Can't be that the proposal is just super vague and there's absolutely no plan what exactly the money will be used for.
You should give up waiting for L1 smart contracts. The plans for those have been trashed a long time ago.
Crapitalism makes us all self-centered and selfish.
Abundance solves that.
I don't care what level they are on as long as I can provide liquidity to pools and dex's without kyc.
Aggie built that without funding and I use it daily.
I will use vsc's offerings, too.
I like their trustless deposits and withdrawals as a better option.
Maybe h-e will add that feature when it rolls out.
I'm stoked for VSC. I've always been a critic of the lack of decentralization of H-E (and the fees going to a private entity) (which I assume is the reason aggy thinks I'd hold a personal grudge), and don't use it for that reason. Took us way too long to get a solution that's true to the ideals crypto was founded on.
He had to make money at it, or he couldn't do it.
All hail, crapitalism!
IF he had received more support from the pyramid perhaps he would have used hbd rather than dec and the others.
Instead, he got the back of their hands.
Don't get me wrong, building a gang to increase the rake from the rewards pool, and selling votes for personal profit, was not in the best interests of us all, and I said as much at the time, but one's understanding can be only as deep as one's exposure to options.
Numerous as they are, if you haven't studied material outside what is fed to us by our controllers on the flashylight boxes, there is zero chance of escaping a slavery one doesn't know exists.
And still, hive is the best option to get what we are searching for, abundance for us all.
Haha, good one.
I came back yesterday after 2+ years away, and this post was one of the first things I saw, well, actually I saw the slightly more spun and redacted version of it on the "other person's" post.
Some things and some people never change huh? Stand your ground. It's much better to be right, than to be popular. And you are doing a fine job of being absolutely right on this one. Good call.
Why would he write a post about it? I didn't even know :D
Thanks for pointing it out for me, I feel less bad about copy pasting a private conversation now.
Never feel bad for being accurate. Hell I was there myself, 5000 years ago... Now this old post of mine is as relevant as it always was, and in current context, you might find it amusing, despite it being well past its shelf life. But for the lolz, here ya go:
https://hive.blog/cults/@sircork/comforting-lies-unpleasant-truths
for more lolz I checked the last conversations I had with him. Didn't see me having a grudge, but I did encounter a community leader who doesn't care about his community
And who doesn't know how the chain he supposedly cares so much about works...
Long time ago. I didn't even know he's still involved with SPL, thought he got fired and started his own company.
"but I did encounter a community leader who doesn't care about his community"
He cares about them when he needs to exploit them. Or tell them that they must choose to eliminate long time friends to keep their roles within his initiatives, and I could go on and on but I already did, 2 and 3 years ago, published it all, it led only to my own anger eating me from the inside out. It's 50% of the reason I left for two years and when I finally had a hankering to come back around, I did some poking into things and found much of the same muchness continues. Don't let it keep you awake, but I sense a level headedness here in you, that it shall not.
Just stay the course of "doing the next right things" and hold people accountable. You are in something of a position to have that capability. It appears to me, you will do just that.
But remember, its a cult of personality, and with only so much cult and so much personality involved with this rather tiny ecosystem, you also have to choose your battles. But I sense you know that too, and half a million for some subjectively thin "maybes" and "ideas" is something I would hope our top 20 witnesses would scrutinize with a magnifying glass, and not just support blindly because of "somebody did something 7 years ago, sort of a little bit, maybe, once upon a time".
Carry on Sir, you have my respect and fwiw, my now worthless and powerless witness vote.
I'm just a little shocked that the guy who ran the company down by betting on a perpetual bull market is still involved in collecting money for the same company. And even more so than the official CEO seemingly.
Before this, I was just in doubt that the money will be well spent. Now I do assume it will end up in certain private pockets. Time will tell if I'm right or just paranoid.
Stay vigilant Sir. Your instincts serve you well, based on historical and empirical evidence.
It's hard to avoid jumping to that conclusion. I don't think you are being paranoid.
Someone warned me about this but I didn't gave much attention to it previously. MY LIFE WAS A LIE 😭
One question @pharesim ! Is this still same? Or they fixed it (asking to clear doubts of readers)? Otherwise someone would think this information is too old and is irrelevant now.
Someone warned me by saying "they ain't real nfts".
Nothing changed.
I just got a reminder that I even wrote a PSA about it
https://peakd.com/hive/@louis88/re-pharesim-sh6lbv
For reference - some People in the earlier days took massive advantage of the exploit to see what's inside a pack and just grab only those, that contains gold foils + legendary cards and put over the crap-pack to engine ... and repeat. if someone wonders how some early players are have such big collections. read more:
https://peakd.com/steemmonsters/@pharesim/psa-do-not-buy-second-hand-steemmonster-packs
Cork! Nice to see you again! Welcome back.
Oh you know, Moe, Just couldn't stay away from all this excitement! :P Hope you're groovy! I think I'm going to stick around awhile this time. I feel compelled to rejoin the fray!
LoL, I thoroughly knew you didn't need my help to remove all the old & tired from you.
Busted :)
The bar was set at 29m HP the day the SPL proposal went live.
Today the bar is set at 24.3 million HP.
Were you voting for the return proposal before the SPL proposal went live?
No, I removed my vote for it a while ago in the hope that deathwing gets funded.
It's correct that I voted the return proposal to get it above the SPL one. As stated, my reasoning was that I don't agree to spend half a million without a concise and actionable plan. "We'll hire some marketing guy" didn't cut it for me.
All "politics" and personal history aside. I don't care about that shit. That's between you guys. People gonna people.
It's good to see the system works as intended. It's great to see they gathered enough momentum to earn approved status, and I wasn't surprised to see the goal posts move in their favor either. No rules were broken on the road to success.
I removed my vote from the return proposal after the SPL proposal went live. Acting on my own, to make it a little easier for them, knowing full well someone could easily counter it. That's how it works and I'm not going to yell at an inanimate object if I don't get my way.
Now, I'd like to vote for the return proposal again. Simply because I think the bar is far too low. If all those in support of SPL proposal take that personally, it's not me who's broken.
They like their half million dollars. I don't blame them. But we're leaving the safe wide open. 20 million is just sitting on the table. Protecting that is important. I'd go so far as saying more important than SPL.
You have your reasons. I have mine. Everyone else has theirs. It's only fair. And that proposal system does not give a fuck about feelings.
Sorry to hear about your loss. I don't think you deserve to be punished and that's kind of how it looks. You did not break any rules.
My votes for the return proposal are very dynamic and updated regularly according to the current situation. I just removed it again to get the peak vault/metamask snap proposal closer to being funded, and keep deathwing above. SPL has more support than both of them now.
Makes sense. Need to be flexible. If more were participating we'd see plenty of change, constantly.
I'm still on the fence thinking about supporting SPL but I'm not confident it's a good idea yet. One day I want to, the next day, not so much.
I don't like how they remain somewhat disconnected. The other games here would all thrive if they shared the consumer base, for example. Getting people in the door but they're not shopping around. Not confident 500k will lead to any improvements there. My prediction is: Business as usual. Absolutely NO lessons learned or fucks given. An opportunity to create more opportunities, squandered, for 500k.
So, here's a situation where you countered about ten of my votes (lol) making it easier for something I recently voted for to get funding (peakd). I thought it was cool offering jobs like that to the locals. Some of that money might even stay here.
But like I said. That safe is wide open. Can't take ten steps here without walking into someone complaining about the spending habits. There's not much money left. People will be climbing over one another for the final million. Then what? Play Splinterlands?
Luckily there's way more than a million left.
No need to play splinterlands. Just use a bot.
Yup. "20 million sitting on the table," I said previously. I know. I don't consider 23 million to be a lot of money. Can easily burn through that under these circumstances.
And I just saw that other post you reblogged that ties in to this situation of yours. Not too happy with what I'm seeing. Disillusioned. I was under the impression the support rolling in was a little more organic.
Time to do some thinking.
SPL also have around 1.5 million in their DAO.
they should just pull from that
I feel like this is one of my old go-to lines. But it actually was a phrase I used to use in this exact same venue about the exact same peopling people. Only as time passes you begin to wonder if they even deserve to be confused with "people".
Been awhile dude. I hope you're well. Enjoy the show. lol
Oh I helped invent the show. I am certainly going to enjoy my bit role in the sequel! :) Good to see you again as well!
100%
I do not condone this. SMH. Why can't people just use their words! It's not like you're ask is unreasonable. I changed my vote to your witness, not that it means much.
I can give you half a million reasons for that :D
Thanks for your support!
I feel like they'd do better to just understand the reasons people oppose them in order to see the path towards breaking down those barriers.
They're funded. It's not necessary to understand the opposition when you got enough whales who are willing to make a deal.
I thought that I was the only crazy that disliked the proposal… I think this proposal was the last drop that I needed to conclude that People don’t know how to write proposals, and in consequence people don’t know how to assess dhf proposals… if someone wants a grant to execute a project it needs to be detailed a couple of things… why your project is important, some background, what you foresee to conclude with that project and expenses discrimination. You cant say that you will need 500k USD when you dont know in what you are going to spend on that… how much in personnel ? Technologies needed to buy? Third party company hiring? When I saw a comment in the proposal authors saying that they don’t know exactly the costs and how they are going to spend that? Man… it could be Albert Einstein asking for a grant that I would still be against to do it. Sometimes dhf proposals looks a child play… and stakeholders think that hive tokens are like monopoly bank notes. I am not against the group asking the money, I hated the how mostly.
You are not the only one with concerns about this one!
I am happy to see other people concerned!
Exactly that, this proposal could be an example of how NOT to write a proposal. I'm not against the idea, just need more details and plans.
Thanks for the integrity in your actions!
Always two sides of the story so I like to get it all before I make any judgement call. I'll be honest the threating nature and manipulation talk from Aggy is unneeded and was uncalled for. But Aggy isn't in control of Splinterlands anymore instead Matt is and Matt has done a good job I think in presenting it. *I thought he should have kept out the mention of other exchanges as that did come off threating even though I don't think he meant it to.
I personally feel Splinterlands has brought in at LEAST $500,000 worth of new users, buying hive assets and contributing value into Hive over the years that this is a simple ask to support a good application on hive. I have no issue with the ask and feel this should be passed. It's proven to have brought value exceeding the ask and will continue to do so in the future. That's the type of stuff we need to support around here emotions aside (Because honestly the emotions around here are so crazy that I would be in favor of just dropping and burning all the DHF funds at this point and never restocking it. Feels like it does more damage then good around here.)
Nothing emotional here before aggy sent fake love. I just don't agree with funding proposals that don't present a clear plan how the funds will be used. That was my main takeaway from valueplan, and I'm not gonna change that just because the SPL team is so nice (lol).
That's fair and I'd agree a solid plan of action and accounting should be present for a DHF fund. I'd even say it needs to have updates along with it to show how the money was spent and that it's proving to have positive results. DHF funds need to be used effective and provide value and more then they take IMO.
So how is it both sides then? Their proposal was lacking, and instead of correcting it in a timely manner they went around bullying and bribing.
I think for me it's because I go to the town halls, interact and watch the discord channels and been with the game since Alpha that I was ok with the lack of information because I see more of what's going on then someone on hive that wouldn't be playing the game and as super active in the community. So those unknowns to me where already fulfilled simply because of the close interaction I've had with the application over the many years. While I can see from your viewpoint that it's missing and I would agree that it in fact is and would be confusing and a very hard unknown ask from the outside looking in.
I also believe that there's really two proposals that should be made instead of this one. One for work to be done to integrate brand awareness and more hive details into the game to expose more players to hive and then a proposal later with better details for a marketing plan which would be backed with conversion numbers via the new onboarding system they are still currently working on.
these are good points.
breaking it up into smaller trackable proposals with more promotion of Hive, could provide a lot of value.
are you not concerned with the millions being wasted by valueplan then? Because I can pretty much guarantee you we will never see that value returned BACK into hive which to me is a dumb project. If it's not going to grow and build hive larger then the cost then it shouldn't be passed. If it is see how long your business is going to run before you drive it into the ground. This isn't to pick sides but just an overall observation.
For sure I could have added that… by the way I just read their post 2 or 3 weeks ago… i wanted more details of some of the « projects expenses there" including a supposed project by a hive watcher member in his community that i have never read about… I wrote a while ago about government transparency, but how we can complain about it when the funds of our investments in here goes to black holes that we don’t know what it is ? I have been reading a lot of drama these last days . I am getting tired 😂
It's for sure not a welcoming environment for new people or even old. It drives people away always has lol
yeah Valueplan is a big issue.
As a Splinterlander of just over three years standing and someone who plays it every single day, you don't even know Hive exists unless you go looking for it. This from a company that employs six people in marketing, lol!
I only learned that Hive was founded as a decentralised social media platform, whicfh is a brilliant idea by the way, cos I started to get involved in various Hive communities on Discord.
I post in various Hive related Discord servers every single day too, but I get zero hp brownie points for being actively involved in over half a doxzen Hive communities.
Having only just learned about the DHF, and been repeatedly told that my opinions do not count as i only have 70hp, can you please explain what this Valueplan thing is?
And no one should try to, if they have good intent for the greater good of the community, it will automatically reflect. I was not ok with the proposal as well, and did not vote, but that's my personal choice.
You doing right thing! I remembered when I questioned you about WIKI - in terms of explanation , you decided to regroup your post and make it more to the whole community to understand instead of playing weird ass politics or getting offended. All the heart I see in the communication after 5 years it's just sad reality which is not even politics, it's just poorly played politics.
I am sorry this happened to you. It should not be happening, but sadly it is. It's up to us to figure out what kind of culture and place we want to have. I just voted for you as a witness and unvoted aggroed. There's plenty of contribution he has done for Hive but sadly this kind of behaviour is something I completely cannot accept.
@yabapmatt Do you have any comment on this?
Sad to see this kind of politics... Thank you Pharesim for all your help ❤️
Stay strong and independent!
HOW DARE YOU
lol... as a bystander who has long given up on worrying about the petty politics around here... that's great popcorn! thanks for the chuckles!
on another note, I really wonder how they blew all the money they made during their bullish times!?! They seem to have a rather incredible rate of cash burning. In so far I fully understand why you'd try to prevent more funds going their way... fass ohne boden!
I support you completely. This kind of quid pro quo politics is disgusting. We as a community should be above this. But human fucking nature... as soon as money enters a system, corruption follows. I already vote for you so I can't add anything for your display of honesty. But yeah, I really appreciate your independence.
you only have to look that the same people do the same events every year. it's a circle jerk.
Holy fuck. Thats insane
"To whom it may concern" ...Loose Nuts & Bolts for hivers and everyone else!
Yeah, later on, I may write a full post a bit more to the point.
What? Why's Larken addressing me on this topic?
In fact, Larken is addressing to way more people on this topic, but very few of them admit it publicly.
At the beginning of the video he mentions me by name. That is what I was referring to.
Oh yeah, that's true! What did you do to him to make him include you in his tirade?
Well, I dunno. I always speak my mind forthrightly and as a result suffer the censure of those that reckon themselves my betters. Perhaps he used me as an example of how to do so?
It's stuff like this and the fact that I don't rub elbows with many of the top 20 whales is why I have never submitted a proposal for Hivelist, BlockTunes, or any of my other Hive based projects and just bootstrapped them, which hasn't really worked the best either. The corruption level in the DHF is kind of mind numbing. Way to stick to your guns!
This is what I learned here in the blockchain.😊 You cannot force a vote.😊
Well, that's a shock.
Thanks for being transparent... We need more of this on HIVE...
You got my witness vote!
thank you!
I also do not like to get involved in whale voting games and Hive politics, and I just wanted to say that Aggroed does not speak for Splinterlands and certainly not for me. I don't want any part in what he is doing and wish he would have just stayed out of it.
I also saw a comment here that you assume the funds will just go to certain people's private pockets. I can assure you that that is just completely untrue. I know that you don't know me and haven't closely followed what I have been doing with Splinterlands, but I can assure you that anyone who has knows that I have given up a lot personally and done everything I can since taking over the company to ensure that every cent we take in is well spent towards the goal of making Splinterlands a success.
I am not posting this to try to get anyone to support the proposal, I would not go asking or certainly not trying to coerce people for votes, but I feel like my character and intentions are being attacked as a result of what Aggroed has been doing and I just wanted to set the record straight.
Sorry for that, I didn't intend to question your integrity at all. Aggy gave me the impression that he'd be way more involved than you make it sound now.
Whether you like it or not you can't avoid politics. As a top 20 witness you form part of our governance and with a large stake you have a big say in what happens around here.
You need to vote on each issue as you see fit but i would hope that you do so for the best possible reasons and with the best interest of the eco-system in mind regardless of how one person would act or not. Like aggroed or not but splinterlands and hive engine have been a big part of our chains development and how we can operate. They have added a lot to the eco-system and i do think that without their team we would be in a lot worse place at this point.
Very few teams have added any sort of viable business to the chain apart from splinterlands so i hope that they do stay here building and can survive the next year or so without having to migrate.
I still vote your your witness as well and have for a long time as i feel that you also add value to the eco-system and that is all we can try to do as a community.
And now explain how my investment in hive that gives me the right to vote as I see fit is related to my witness duties.
And that's what I do. After the mess with valueplan, I decided to not support proposals that don't include a detailed plan on how the money will be spent, no matter who posts it.
A lot of people asked for more information and were ignored or served nothing burgers. That's not how you ask for a grant.
And sorry, I don't see a company that needs a 500k bailout after 6 years of operations viable. SPL needs some serious updates to be attractive to people who aren't invested in it already.
Have a good #beer together at #hivefest
If I go, I got better things to do than hanging out with liars and blackmailers.
Maybe if I'm invited with a sincere apology.
xd
There's lots of things we don't agree on, but these aren't them. I find your actions admirable in this matter.
Thanks!
Hive needs more of this.
@pharesim your concerns about the lack of detail in the proposal are valid.
However, many of the successful proposals also lack detail, so it seems unfair to pick on this one alone.
As a relative noob with only 70 HP, I have repeatedly been told by senior hivers that my views don't count. Just consider that for a moment!
I know nothing about the past acrimonies that riddle old Hivers, but it seems to predate the existence of Hive or Splinterlands.
All I know is Splinterlands is a great game and Hive is a great blockchain.
Please separate your personal feelings and support this proposal again...
I don't pick. There are many active proposals I do not vote for. None of them attacked me personally for it so far, this is a first.
Didn't you just say that's normal? I think it's bad, but you seemed to disagree...
This has never been about personal quarrels or feelings for me, I just don't support the proposal due to a lack of substance. No detailed plan for the money -> no support. Simple as that.
Most DHF proposals lack detail though, and many of them are just nooded thhrough by old whales, so your objection seems more like anger about Aggy's hamfisted approach.
Hivers and Splinterlanders are both part of two great things, and we should be helping each other out.
So because other whales vote for bad proposals, I should too now?
The only reason you think it would be about aggy is because he said so. I didn't even know he's still involved before he started his vendetta against me, thought he left SPL.
Maybe you need to read the previous post from @pharesim to see how this started & why it is very bad. Thumbs up to @pharesim for calling attention to this
i have actually had a good chat with @pharesim in discord and think we have established a shared understanding 🙂
I reached out to you on discord.
LOVE IT WE ALL NEED TO SPEAK UP
On Hive, no person or group should monopolize the funds, as power can lead to unethical behaviors as we can see, which is an issue at the moment. These funds should be used more efficiently. If necessary, consider transferring them to a NULL account. The current value plan isn't providing a good outcome for HIVE, and thus, a different approach might be beneficial.
Actually.. It's aggroed that's the immature one here not the whole hive community.
And it's been know for some time that aggroed has been on a lot of people bad sides lately. because he seemingly does things like this that are morally questionable, politically motivated and just.. rude...
He probably genuinely wants to see hive succeed but there's much better ways to go about it.
Stick to your guns and carry on like you do!
I'm a hive witness supporting the blockchain.
I'm sorry for generalizing! It's not just aggy, but definitely not the whole community either.
If downvotes on Hive were utilized effectively and no bad downvotes, it could function well. However, currently, their usage by those with significant Hive power seems problematic it's bad, and hindering Hive's growth as investment in Hive is discouraged by bad downvotes and abuse taking place on Hive.
If downvotes on Hive were utilized effectively and no bad downvotes, it could function well. However, currently, their usage by those with significant Hive power seems problematic it's bad, and hindering Hive's growth as investment in Hive is discouraged by bad downvotes and abuse that is taking place on Hive. It's challenging to construct a truly decentralized structure on a centralized blockchain like Hive. Those who set the rules disregard them, creating an unfair environment.
💕
Hello pharesim!
It's nice to let you know that your article won 🥉 place.
Your post is among the best articles voted 7 days ago by the @hive-lu | King Lucoin Curator by hallmann
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