RE: Choose one of two not so common Splinterlands cards or 1 HSBI raffle #111 [en/de]

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Oh I thought I got these 26 units from all these raffles I'm participating in every day?... !LOL
!LUV

spt sbt neoxian proofofbrain pgm hive-engine alive hivehustlers pimp contest
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If that's the case, then the giveaway hosts have also received a total of 26 HSBI units by awarding you 26 HSBI overall. 🤓 !LUV

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And can we as users also award them to someone? How is that working? !LUV !PIZZA

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I don't understand what you mean with award them to someone. 🤯 !PIZZA

You can sponsor someone an amount of HSBI units and get the same amount of units for yourself. 🤓 For example, if you want to sponsor @claudiavb 5 HSBI units, you must transfer 5 HIVE to the HSBI bot, and you and @claudiavb will both get 5 HSBI units (which means a total of 10 HSBI units for 5 HIVE). 😏

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So basically these HSBI are for sale?.... And how does the HSBI bot (which account is that?) know who exactly I would like to sponsor? I mean to give the HSBI to @claudiavb and not to someone else? !wine

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To sponsor someone for HSBI and get HSBI units for both of you, just send a HIVE transfer to @steembasicincome of a whole number (such as 1, 2, 5, 10, etc.) only and add the name of the Hive user (with the @ or "at" symbol) on the memo. 🤓 !PIZZA

For example, if you want to sponsor 1 HSBI unit for @savvytester, just send 1 HIVE to @steembasicincome so that both @svanbo and @savvytester will get 1 HSBI unit. 😆😅 !wine

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And like this they got added permanently into both wallets? Or is it only temporarily? !PIZZA !LUV

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Sponsoring someone for HSBI is permanent (unless a Hive user with HSBI units has gone against the HSBI rules). 🤓 !LUV

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I almost sent you some, but just in time I reconsidered that you cannot do anything with them since you're not posting. I've sent some to @claudiavb instead. But they aren't appearing yet. It's probably taking some time !wine

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If ever I publish a post a year later, then 1/3 of the HSBI balance that I accumulated will be applied to that post as curation. 😅 !wine

Anyway, I see that you have sponsored the Hive account of your daughter @claudiavb with 10 HSBI units, and delegated 200 Hive Power to the HSBI bot which gives you 100 bonus HSBI units until you withdraw the delegation. 🤓

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That's right. Afterwards I considered that the sponsoring isn't a very good idea, since it costs me hive, which is gone, while delegations culd be altered or withdrawn any moment. And apart from that these 200 HP as a delegation won't make a big difference on the total... I'll consider to delegate more, after powering up in 2 weeks... !BBH !PGM !CTP

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@savvytester! Your Content Is Awesome so I just sent 1 $BBH (Bitcoin Backed Hive) to your account on behalf of @svanbo. (1/1)

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(Edited)

We can say that buying permanent ("lifetime") HSBI units is for the long term, while delegating HP to get temporary bonus HSBI units is better for the short term. 🤔🤓

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Let's say that delegating is both long and short term, it's just more flexible !wine

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However, you (and the Hive users you sponsor) would earn more efficiently in the long run (at least a year) if you simply spend HIVE to buy permanent units rather than delegate continuously to the HSBI Hive account. 🤓 !PIZZA !LUV

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Why do you think we would earn more efficiently like that? The sponsored Units are permanent and cannot be taken away when I want. The delegations are also permanent as long as I don't stop them and I can take out the delegation whenever I'd like.... Am I missing something? !wine

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You see the permanence of the sponsored HSBI units as a disadvantage, though some Hive users would see the same permanence as an advantage because they no longer have to (temporarily) delegate their Hive Power to the HSBI bot, where the HP can be used for curating (and claiming free Account Creation Tokens if the HP to be delegated is at least 5,000). 🤓 The main idea of HSBI is lifetime upvotes into your account, and the HP delegation to the HSBI bot provides only "bonuses", and that's only 1 HSBI unit for every 2 HP delegated unlike 2 total HSBI units for you and your selected sponsee for every 1 HIVE sent. 😏 !LUV

Anyway, you can request a partial refund of your "permanent" HSBI units, where you will be provided the amount of HIVE that you got for your own Hive account (which excludes what the other Hive accounts that you sponsored got which is 50%) which you haven't "earned" yet through upvotes. 🤓 That means when initiating a refund, you will get more HIVE back the earlier you request the refund. 😏 !wine

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Partial refunds are dependent on the age of the account. Refund eligibility is triggered by major changes to the program. Since the last major change we made was at the time of Hive fork, only members that were with us before that are eligible to request refunds. That's quite a long time ago now.

There are a few whales that will pick up units in over-the-counter arrangements, and they usually go for around 0.50 (since each 1 HIVE creates 2 units). We have some long-term plans to improve liquidity of existing units, but there is not currently active development in that direction.

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Looks like SBI unit holders that got their units after the Hive blockchain existed are no longer eligible for refunds (until such time that existing units become less non-liquid). 🤔🤯

Thanks for another long reply! 🤗

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The refund policy has always been contingent on material changes in the program. If we change how it works, it's only right to offer people an out, but otherwise it's supposed to be a long-term commitment. We haven't made any material changes in years.

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I would not ask anything back, but maybe other people do...
I don't see the permanence of the sponsored HSBI units as a disadvantage, but I meant that I the delegation as being a better way / advantage !wine !LUV

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According to their official website: 🤔 !wine

Hive Stake Based Income (Hive SBI) is a social experiment to bring a voluntary crowdfunded basic income to as many Hivers as possible. Members join by sponsoring others into the program. Hive SBI is delivered through providing regular upvotes to member content.

Looks like you are one of the few Hive users who see that getting temporary HSBI units by delegating Hive Power (which wasn't part of the original plan for the SBI project) is better or more advantageous than the permanent lifetime units. 😅 !LUV

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I didn't think it was difficult to see it like this... !LOL !wine

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I can't say for certain if HSBI is "for sale", as it is marketed as Social Experiment to provide every Hiver with Stake Based Income according to the steembasicincome Hive account's profile description. 🤯 !BEER

Anyway, you can type !sbi status to get the latest update regarding your HSBI. 🤓

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Hi @savvytester!

  • you have 20 units and 0 bonus units
  • your rshares balance is 1950076809806 or 0.829 $
  • your next SBI upvote is predicted to be 0.276 $

Structure of your total SBI vote value:

  • 92.77 % has come from your subscription level
  • 0.00 % has come from your bonus units
  • 0.00 % has come from upvoting rewards
  • 0.00 % has come from new account bonus or extra value from pre-automation rewards



    Have you seen our website?
    It's a great resource to check your Hive SBI levels, along with your history of who has sponsored you and what upvotes we have provided you!
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If all 92.77% of my HSBI shares came from my "subscription level", I wonder where the rest which is 7.23% came from. 🤯😅 @svanbo

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Where to type this? !HUG

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Just type it on any comment. 🤓 I don't know if it works on posts. 😅 !WEED

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Yeah, I've been trying it and it worked !sbi status !PGM !CTP

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Hi @svanbo!

  • you have 28 units and 0 bonus units
  • your rshares balance is 106420040968 or 0.046 $
  • you need to wait until your upvote value (current value: 0.015 $) is above 0.021 $

Structure of your total SBI vote value:

  • 97.03 % has come from your subscription level
  • 0.00 % has come from your bonus units
  • 0.00 % has come from upvoting rewards
  • 0.00 % has come from new account bonus or extra value from pre-automation rewards



    Have you seen our website?
    It's a great resource to check your Hive SBI levels, along with your history of who has sponsored you and what upvotes we have provided you!
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After 6 days of having only 28 "regular" units (and 0 bonus units), you now have 49 "regular" units (and 100 bonus units). 🤓

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Yes, after some sponsoring and delegating... And winning 1 HSBI as well !LOL !wine

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The more Hive Power you delegate to the steembasicincome Hive account, the more bonus HSBI units you will have, and that means more incoming curation for most (or every one) of your posts (unlike #dustsweeper or #dustbunny which simply makes the dust votes on your content or the content you curate get paid out). 🤔😎 !PIZZA !LUV

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I understand. Great feature this SBI-delegation !wine

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(Edited)

However, you won't be able to "sponsor" any other Hive user by simply delegating Hive Power to the HSBI Hive account. 🤔

Anyway, I assume that you won't mind not being able to "sponsor" anybody (and you can simply make your daughter's Hive account delegate to the HSBI Hive account too if you want to). 😅

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Indeed, I don't see the benefits of sponsoring weighing up against the benefits of delegating here !wine

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(Edited)

Both temporary (bonus) and permanent HSBI units are provided by the Hive HSBI project, and Hive users are free to choose how much Hive Power to delegate or how much HIVE to spend for those units. 🤗

Anyway, please take your time reading my long comment about HSBI units here. 🤯😅

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Meanwhile I did read it. Thank you !wine

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A Hive user just gave you at least $0.10 upvotes on 32 of your recent comments. 🤔😎😅 !wine

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Sometimes I get lucky... But i think it's a guy who signs in efvery now and than, gives me this lots of upvotes, because I'm also (automatically) upvoting his with 100%. I like this kind of giving and taking... I think better for everyone would be he'd do the autovoting but for some reason he doesn't like to... !LOL !wine

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I think that autovoting should only be triggered when the Hive account's Voting Mana would only sit at exactly 100% anyway, and manual voting should be done as long as the owner of the Hive account interacts with the platform regularly (and doesn't forget to vote). 🤔🤓 !LUV !wine

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I disagree with you. I'm very happy with the autovoting as it is. Like this I can appreciate certain accounts without having to go and enter / read them! And I wouldn't miss any... !wine !LUV

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You can still vote for your favorite Hive authors' posts without reading them while keeping your Hive account's Voting Power as close to 100% as possible (but not exactly 100% because it would be wasted). 🤓😅

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oh just like this in a comment? What are bonus units and how to get them?
!sbi status

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Hi @svanbo!

  • you have 28 units and 0 bonus units
  • your rshares balance is 122959878451 or 0.051 $
  • you need to wait until your upvote value (current value: 0.017 $) is above 0.020 $

Structure of your total SBI vote value:

  • 97.00 % has come from your subscription level
  • 0.00 % has come from your bonus units
  • 0.00 % has come from upvoting rewards
  • 0.00 % has come from new account bonus or extra value from pre-automation rewards



    Have you seen our website?
    It's a great resource to check your Hive SBI levels, along with your history of who has sponsored you and what upvotes we have provided you!
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You can get bonus credits by delegating your Hive Power to an HSBI bot. 🤓 The bonus is removed when the delegation is withdrawn. 😏 !LUV

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(Edited)

e.g. to @sbi4 ? How much HP for how many HSBI? !wine

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You have to delegato to @steembasicincome for bonus units. We don't monitor delegation changes on the other accounts except for a couple people that delegate >5200 for weekly payments.

The ratio is 1 bonus unit for each 2 HP delegation. We recommend you have enough HP to consistently deliver 0.02 on a comment before you delegate to any third party unless you are rarely curating.

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Please explain why the structure of the HSBI vote values don't total to 100% according to HSBI bots, such as this. 😅

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That's a very old functionality that we thought would provide users with more insight into their votes, but it has never been accurate.

Originally it had subscription, bonus units, and upvote rewards. It didn't add to 100% because every account starts with enough pending value to receive their first upvote immediately. That was added as a fourth section, but there is no field in the DB that stores that value. Users that transferred their units and pending value across from Steem would also have a boost in that category.

It should just be 100% less the other three values, but in any case... most people don't have bonus units, and there is no reward for upvoting for the last four years or more. It doesn't provide much in the way of information; people mostly ignore it, and it hasn't been a priority to fix.

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Maybe you should just add an "other sources" field on the HSBI bot's response so that the total percentage will always be 100%. 😅

Thanks for the response! 😀 I believe @svanbo would find your official answer useful. 😎

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You already got an official answer there. 😎 !wine

However, I haven't checked if delegating Hive Power with a fractional part (such as 1.500 HP) will provide you with 0.75 bonus HSBI units, or if it will be rounded down to the lower whole number. 🤔😅

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There are no partial units, so it always rounds down to the lower whole number.

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I saw it, but I don't understand the "weekly payments" in "a couple people that delegate >5200 for weekly payments." !wine

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Maybe he means that the other HSBI Hive accounts (that isn't steembasicincome) aren't monitored for Hive Power delegations (which will award bonus HSBI units) except for those who have delegated huge amounts (more than 5,200 HP). 🤔 !LUV

Maybe if you want to delegate to a random HSBI bot, try to make it more than 5,200 HP. 😆😅 !WEED

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Don't delegate to random HSBI bots without discussing it with me first. The bot only checks delegation on the main account, and I look at the delegating accounts to confirm delegation is unchanged each week for the negotiated leases, not at the accounts they delegate to.

If you delegate to any HSBI account other than @steembasicincome, nobody will ever see it and you will get no direct benefit, unless you plan to delegate more than 5200 and discuss it with me first.

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It's not like I or @svanbo has more than 5,200 Hive Power to delegate right now to the other HSBI bots. 😅

Anyway, thanks for the information about why we need to delegate to the steembasicincome Hive account for bonus HSBI units (unless we have more than 5,200 Hive Power and prior arrangements have been made)! 🤓

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I don't know why I would delegate to other accounts than the main account for the same purpose? I'll delegate some more to @steembasicincome as soon as I upvote in 12 days... !wine

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It's because I saw other HSBI bots curating on behalf of the main HSBI curation account (steembasicincome), until the HSBI founder strongly advised not to do so without prior arrangements. 🤯😅 !PIZZA !wine

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ah I see !wine

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I assume that the main steembasicincome bot can already do the job of curating for Hive users with HSBI shares even without the HSBI curation alt accounts. 🤔🤓 !LUV

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The setup made more sense when it was believed that HIVE would eventually have a high market price. Everyone is used to there being a maximum deliverable upvote (100% upvote) but there is also a minimum (0.01% upvote). We had some concerns that as Hive SBI grew, the minimum upvote value would exceed the desired 0.021 threshold and create weird issues. That has never happened because of HIVE underperformance, but it could still happen as HP grows.

There are also edge considerations around blockchain behavior. It was not possible for an account to upvote more than one post per block (I'm unsure whether this technical limitation still exists), so having multiple voting accounts bypassed this restriction. In practice we self-throttle so that RPC nodes don't cut off our access, so we rarely deliver more than a single upvote per block anyway. Being fast is less important with straight-line curation for the first 24 hour of each post.

Finally, there are legacy reasons. When the program was first begun, we did not have our own voting bot and we were using third party software that had a limitation of 100 target accounts scheduled for each voter. We were required to scale up to 10 voting accounts as we reached nearly 1000 accounts on our vote list before we were able to get out our initial full automation release at about the 8-month mark. When we did release full automation, we chose to keep all 10 accounts and scale our HP across them for the reasons detailed above.

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Wow thanks for all this explanation and "history lesson". How long does SBI already exist? !BEER

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Initially launched on Steem as Steem Basic Income in 2017, then launched on Hive at the same time Hive was forked from Steem.

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(Edited)

It's great that you are able to maintain this for 7 years already.... I see a lot of other project dying here, and a lot of people abandoning... Thank you for the great work! !LUV !HUG !WEED

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Thanks for your very detailed explanations! 😀 I would come back to your long comment from time to time to understand the HSBI mechanisms more. 😅

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That's great, the more they get, the more we get too !wine

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I wonder what you mean with "the more they get". 🤔 Is it more bot Hive accounts, more HSBI units sold (or bonus issued from Hive Power delegations), or something else? 🤯😅 !PIZZA !LUV

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I've been referring to the income Steembasicincome is getting from delegations and curation. The more powerful steembasicincome is going to get, the more it can pay out on upvotes. it's a win-win.... !wine

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It's true that the more curation rewards the HSBI bots get from voting HSBI unit holders, the more value their votes would produce over time (assuming the price of HIVE doesn't go down greater than the curation rewards the HSBI bots get). 🤓😏 !PIZZA !LUV

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